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not going :-(

)^(

I'd love to go, but I can't afford the gazillion dollars. Burning Man used to be cool but now it's over hyped.

I miss going, but can't afford it anymore. Unfortunately, Burning Man is no longer a poor persons hobby. :(

PotATO: Check on FB where? Nothing comes up under your moniker.

Aww, "da man", don't begrudge some folks their romps in the desert. Many (48,000+ at last count) still crave a place where radical self-expression is maximized and rules are minimized. At an event where nudity, iconoclastic art, sexuality, rude language, cultural commentary, and weird behavior are all a part of the essential experience of Burning Man, I suspect few of the participants are really concerned overmuch about "too much screaming (or) not enough presence."

@da man: No, I haven't been to Burning Man. But I do not begrudge those who choose to recreate in that way, just as I would not have them begrudge my own recreational choices. As to what BM is v. what it used to be, it is my understanding that it used to be free...now it is quite costly, and I think most folks would be hard-pressed to discover BM LLC's total actual monetary earnings each year and how much of that represents pure profit for its organizers and corporate officers. I suspect this amount is not, to any degree, insignificant. Viewed in this way, I think BM is just as much an excellent example of capitalism and profit motive in action as it may be one of radical self-expression. But that, too, is apparently part of the beauty of BM...it can be vastly different things for different sorts of people and everyone can still have a mighty fine time. I think that is pretty cool!

@ da man: Hmm...the subject was, and remains a discussion of Burning Man, I believe. Can you point out precisely where and how I changed it? Can you point out precisely where I offer the term "profit" as an "insult?" Quite the contrary! I think the likelihood that the organizers and corporate officers earn a handy profit from Burning Man is a very great *compliment,* to their ingenuity and enterprise specifically and to capitalism and the profit motive in general. Many people who *attend* Burning Man may see that as some sort of insult, but I assure you that I do not! Without the profit motive, I think Burning Man would have remained the much smaller event of its origin. I do not think anyone would have been willing to organizing this event on the scale that it has grown to, absent a significant financial incentive to do so. Again, this is not intended as an insult but, rather, a simple observation and a sincere compliment. It is that very profit motive that I think makes Burning Man possible on its current scale for tens of thousands of burners year after year! I would love to see specific and factual financial statements indicating what Black Rock City LLC's non-volunteer Board, Executive Committee, Senior Staff, BRC Ops Team, and a variety of working Sub-Committees pay themselves. I think you may be mistaken about the non-profit status, however. According to the 2010 annual Afterburn report: "work continued on efforts to transition Burning Man into a non-profit entity." This would seem to indicate that it is currently very much a for-profit enterprise or, at least, that it was at the time the report was published. But even if it is not a for-profit enterprise, non-profits can pay their officers and employees pretty much whatever they like so long as they can justify it. This is precisely why Medical Marijuana Collectives and Co-ops became so very common in California after Prop 215 passed...because their owners can register as non-profits, operate on a tax-exempt basis, and make a TON of money providing medicine to their "members." But back to Burning Man, don't you find it interesting that the so called "financial charts" and "financial statements" on Burning Man's website make no mention of the income side of its ledger? That's not a financial statement, it is an expense report. Why do they not report their *income* as openly as they do their *expenditures*? If you can provide a resource, anywhwere, that accurately reports Black Rock LLC's and Burning Man's actual *income* I would very much like to review it! Many people comment on a lot of things, here, that they do not have any personal experience with. Do you take exception to them as well? I do not need to attend an execution to know that I would not enjoy it. Does my not having attended an execution preclude me from developing and offering an opinion about them? Likewise I do not need to attend Burning Man to know that I would not enjoy it. I can learn all I need to from their own published literature and from the anecdotal stories from those who have attended to draw opinions and reach reasonable conclusions about that particular event. That event is not for me or mine. But as I said early on, I do not begrudge others their interest or participation in it. I just find it interesting that whenever I suggest that there may be a lesser-known profit motive behind Burning Man (in addition to all of the other more equally legitmate and public motives) that some good folks like you seem to get their feathers all a-ruffle. I find that curious.

Well, da man, I suppose an objective review of our respective comments might reveal that we have both departed from Greggory's *original* subject to one degree or another. But if you need for me to shoulder the sole weight of that indictment, I suppose I can manage that. : ) Can you cite a credible source that indicates that BM affiliates have ever "claimed(ed) no profit motive"? I would be surprised if you could. My own research reveals a considerable (and I think quite telling) silence on that particular topic. Well, except for the 2010 Afterburn comment I have already mentioned in which Black Rock LCC self-identifies as a for-profit organization, of course. As to revenue, not all of their revenue is generated from ticket sales, so a simple calculation like that which you suggest will unfortunately *not* provide us with the complete revenue picture that I would be very interested to review. Since it seems necessary, I'll iterate if I may: I would love to see specific and factual financial statements indicating what Black Rock City LLC's non-volunteer Board, Executive Committee, Senior Staff, BRC Ops Team, and a variety of working Sub-Committees pay themselves. I find it interesting that they are not more forthcoming with that information, don't you? Perhaps it is clear to you that no one is getting rich off this, but it is not clear to me. Unlike you, apparently, I would appreciate an opportunity to review a complete financial report from BR LLC before I arrive at such a conclusion. You may note that I never stated or implied that there is not more motivation than simply profit. In fact you may have noted that I stated quite clearly that I think Burning Man can be vastly different things for different sorts of people and that, in spite of this, everyone can still have a mighty fine time. Perhaps it is as you say and a person or persons might sell the trademarked logo for a cool million or so and just retire. But perhaps it is not their desire to do so. Perhaps they are motivated by more than just profit. Or perhaps those who own the rights to the trademark see greater profit still in retaining that control for a while longer. I honestly do not know. I don't think anyone but they *can* know, despite that you seem to believe that you do. I think it is interesting that you believe my lack of attendence makes it absurd for me to comment as if I have a single iota of experience or information to add to the discussion. I have never claimed to have direct experience with Burning Man, nor do I intend for my comments to imply that I have. That is why I made it a point to state that I had not attended and that I had no desire to do so, but that I do not begrudge those who do. As for experience, however, there are many kinds of that, and they can be derived from many different sources. Direct experience can be said to be valuable, but I disagree with your implication that a lack of direct personal experience of an issue or event somehow disqualifies one from an ability to develop an informed opinion on the topic. Do you restrict all of your own opinions and comments solely to those topics wiuth which you have direct personal experience? I would be surprised if this were so. For instance, how can you possibly be certain I would not like Burning Man? Are you me? If not, how could you possibly have developed this opinion? Is it not true that you have a single iota of experience in being me? Certainly not. By your own standard of personal experience, then, you cannot possibly develop an opinion in this regard. And yet you have. Interesting. I have made no general statements about the vibe, the people, their motives, or how the festival has changed. i have done nothing more than ask questions, offer suggestions, and attribute published literature and anecdotal stories from those who *have* attended. You seem to be uncomfortable with these questions and suggestions. You may consider asking yourself why that might be. One last question: Is your name Daniel by any chance? : )

...He is!

How strange for some to be so sensitive about even the suggestion that someone might actually be making money off of Burning Man. Some folks really seem to dislike having their world views tampered with. Interesting.