Bold Idea #2: Queen Mary Casino

Details: By Brian Ulaszewski; | Wednesday, 12 August 2009 08:32

While there are those who regret permanently anchoring the historic cruise ship along the downtown waterfront, there are those who have seen and continue to extol the opportunity to make the Queen Mary a landmark destination. Already, the Queen Mary has been the venue for national and international conferences, as well as weddings, proms and other events. But it languishes in the harbor, waiting for bold visions to activate it to its full potential. The question then becomes how to reposition the Queen Mary to bring more visitors and tourists to this Long Beach attraction. Rock and roll museum, lifestyle shopping center, football stadium; many ideas have been suggested. One of the most interesting and potentially most viable financially is that of creating a world-class gambling casino on the Queen Mary.

At over a thousand feet long and twelve decks high, the hull has the capacity to contain a casino/resort with the capacity and attractiveness of any of those on the Las Vegas Strip. The Queen Mary has a location and view that no other Nevada or California casino could match. Its original deco styling provides a classic, and classy, air. With a little TLC, its central location in the Los Angeles metropolitan region, freeway accessibility, proximity to multiple airports and adjacency to two cruise ship terminals, converting the Queen Mary into a waterfront casino/resort in Long Beach would attract visitors from near and far.

The logistics of creating a waterfront casino are more complicated than revising local zoning regulations, which is not necessarily easy in itself. The permanent berth of the Queen Mary and the forty-five acres of adjacent developable land is made up of reclaimed land. This land is considered tideland area to be held in the public trust of the State. The California Coastal Commission provides strong guidance on zoning regulations and design standards including land use, heights and allowable densities, which has largely dictated the development pattern of the Shoreline and Queensway Bay area. Providing public access, aquatic activities and recreational opportunities are primary goals for any development in the coastal area, which gaming on a historic cruise-liner seems to be fitting.

There are typically two paths in California to provide the legal framework for developing a casino: a Native American-owned and -operated full service casino, or a non-Tribal card club without slot machines. The latter is allowed in several municipalities in Los Angeles County. There have been cases of land-swaps arranged to bring Native American-owned casinos into more central locations, but these have caused considerable controversy in Congress and in the state of California. For example, Richmond, California has been dealing with an ongoing battle over a Tribal casino proposed on its former naval facilities. Though a very different scenario, the Richmond case may be a harbinger for future opportunities like that potentially provided by the Queen Mary.

The other option is to develop a limited service card club, like those in Hawaiian Gardens and Oceanside. Allowing card clubs requires voter approval. Public debate and a referendum provides – at least in theory - thoughtful analysis of the advantages and disadvantages of allowing card clubs. Still, however, the Coastal Commission would likely have a say in the matter regardless of the will of the voters. The big difference between card clubs and full casinos is the lack of slot machines, but they still do generate a lot of business, however, as is evident with the Hustler Casino and Bicycle Club in Bell Gardens. One could imagine a scenario whereby a card-club can be augmented by the token gambling machines of Looff’s (of original Pike fame, now on Long Beach Boulevard) while providing a unique bit of Long Beach character to a Queen Mary casino.

Creating an international attraction that brings more people to the city without harming existing attractions could promote further economic development in the waterfront and downtown area. The fiscal benefit to the city could be significant, including hotel bed tax, sales tax and potential revenue-sharing with the casino. Hawaiian Gardens Casino contributes over nine million dollars annually to the city coffers, making up nearly a third of their city’s budget.

If done properly, a project of this scale at this location could become an international resort that not only includes a hotel and casino but quality retail, restaurants, convention facilities, performance venues and entertainment attractions. The district would be connected to the downtown via the Passport Shuttle and Aquataxi while being augmented by a suspended gondola service, spanning the banks of the Los Angeles River. Imagine the art deco splendor of the Queen Mary, truly Long Beach’s jewel in the harbor, transformed into a first-class international destination. It would draw visitors from all over the world, contribute significant revenue to the city, and provide the excitement of a casino resort with the romantic image of the downtown waterfront.

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Archived Comments (45)

Nick Fiesta

A simple low-class card club should be a non-starter. If it can be done, it should be a high class Vegas-style casino. No subsidies, please.

Brian

If #8 and #2 are tied together, I am in.

mike donelon

Got your email Brian. Listen guys I've been involved in LBC politics and grass roots community issues for 25 years and served on the council. If the idea of gambling is moved forward with a plan for using dollars on a particular project then your done from the get go. Library is a great idea but I can think of 100's of groups that would step up for a piece of the pie. Youth programs, more police, street repairs, wetlands restoration, breakwater removal,arts, beachfront skate park at Junipero and the bluff, etc, etc. The only way to move this forward is a simple one liner asking the city to review the possibilities of gaming/gambling on the QM. If it comes back in 6 months or so that it is possible then attach causes/projects and begin the debate. If you do that now it goes nowhere. There will be huge state, coastal commission and other issues to deal with. What is funded with the dollars will play a very small role in the success or failure of the issue. The process itself will determine what and if the dollars can be spent on anything not related to tidelands/coastal commission rules. As I said I'm willing to step up and help(not lead) an effort to ask the issue of gambling be studied. So far only 2 people have been interested from these comments. I never fly solo and it doesn't look like there are enough commentators that are really interested in doing this. Great comments though. Thats why I no longer am interested in politics. To much talk and not enough action...politicians and the community are not much different. Oh well, I'll just stick with skate parks! Kids have much more energy to commit than adults.

Brian

Gerrie, You give me too little credit. The QM Casino's revnue is to pay for #8 New Main Waterfront Library. If a revenue sharing agreement is reached with the State, they will play. A QM casino provides recreational activity for visitors on the water. I find it a compelling argument for the Coastal Commission principles.

Candace Wood

This isn't a bold "new" idea. It's an old one voted down by our residents (in 1992, I belirve). Don't we have enough crime downtown without bringing in the professionals?

Diana Lejins

This is the right time--let's get the Council aboard! What are we waiting for???

Gerrie Schipske

Alas and alack..when I proposed the QM as a casino a lot of legal research was done and here's why it cannot happen: 1) it is in Tidelands and all revenue coming from anything in Tidelands goes to tidelands and not the city's general funds ; 2) The state lands commission probably won't approve because gambling is not in line with the purposes of use for tidelands property; 3) we would be limited to a Hawaiian Gardens style casino -- just cards -- because other gambling is illegal outside of Indian reservation land. Which wouldn't be bad if we could get the World Poker Tournament to locate there...but see #1 and #3; 4) I did suggest we might want to see if we can sell that area to the Gabrieleno tribe, however, again see the stuff above about Tidelands.
The only way LB could have gambling is out of the tidelands area..and the wetlands have been spoken for..

Christopher

let's do this!

mikedonelon

I have a few people that would like to move. This is the idea. The community bring to council under new business and ask for a 6 month study in various committees. Gerrie is correct in her points but lets see where it gets us. Maybe no where but worth a shot. I am still open to hosting/organizing a small meeting to discuss language to request a study. This should come from the community and not council. Please not me and my idea, its everyones idea. We all keep our egos in check. The debate as to if its a sin or crime let that be discussed in the process of committees. I'll try for a week. No takers then good luck, all talk and no action! My email is mikedonelon@aol.com

Dave in Alamitos Beach

To Candace, I'd rather have "professional crime" on the Queen Mary than I guess the amateur crime we currently have throughout downtown Long Beach. To Gerrie and others about the Tidelands, does it matter that this is on a ship? When Katrina & Rita hit, Mississippi had gambling on barges offshore to get around some laws. What was that about? Can we use the same kind of laws? And since we're more likely to get earthquakes than hurricanes, we don't have the likelihood of Katrina happening in our waters.

Haiku Frank

Bless Gerrie Schipske/To wake up and smell coffee/Of a stupid whim.

Kity

Is the entire Alamitos Bay tide lands? You could sit her anywhere among the oil islands and create jobs providing water taxis and shuttles to and from.

mikedonelon

I have spent the past week talking to elected officials, former consultants, gambling attorneys, former city mangers and staff. This is a huge undertaking and would require changes to state laws,a very expensive study, a ballot measure and a debate with law enforcement and anti-gambling folks. I tried to put a group together. Had a few high profile takers. Not enough to push this. Oh well would've been fun to chase. I consider this off the table. If anyone wants to jump in led the effort go for it.

Dennis

This idea has been kicked around for some time and it needs to be kicked into action. The revenue from the Hawaiian Gardens casino pays the entire city payroll if I am not mistaken, while it is not a large payroll nonetheless it is paid.

Queen Mary Casino? YES

Dave in Alamitos Beach

This was my idea, but I think it's been everyone's at one time or another. Heck, I thought the Queen Mary WAS a casino the first time I saw it from afar. Can there even be any opposition within the city to this idea? I can't think who would oppose it except maybe Gamblers Anonymous or something. Look, we need the money, and the Queen Mary needs to be relevant. This needs to happen. Where else would James Bond gamble anyway? He'd be right at home amongst the Art Deco.

Don

I've been hearing about gambling on the Queen Mary for years. They'd have to have real black jack (not that California black jack crap) and FREE booze to get me aboard with all those ghosts on there!!

Bill Orton

I support the concept and urge city officials to direct staff to study the concept for possible inclusion as an amendment to the existing lease.

Darwin

Knee-jerk Dennis admitted that tis idea had been "kicked around for some time." The first Council "kick" came from Gerrie Schipske, not Brian. Since Dennis has already voted YES, because a casino paid the entire city payroll of Hawaiian Gardens, it's a done deal in Long Beach.

Lou

Now here's a great (and BOLD) idea that could actually happen. Finally.

Melissa

I have been saying this for years. I think it needs to be a full-service casino, for everyone to enjoy. The card casinos are okay, but to really capture the revenue that's out there - it has to be full service. I say this because your typical mom and pop that like to dabbble in a little gambling, would not come to just a card club. They go where the slots are. If they are going to do it, they need to do it right - not half way!

Andy Pesich

Yes. This is a very old idea that has aged gracefully. I talked about it back in 2005 in a letter-to-the-editor to the Grunion.

When Disney took over from Wrather decades ago, they had no clue on how to make the QM profitable. The only profitable event back then was the New Year's Eve event, which was always a mess but at least profitable.

The QM at that capacity every weekend would do the trick for both it and the Long Beach economy.

CASHELL

As a former employee on the Queen.... a Casino is a definite! Has been spoken about by many... Why not put into action earlier? Well, another failure on the part of our wonderful City of Long Beach!!

qmcasino

While I didn't notice the casino idea mentioned in "Dave in Alamitos Beach" original list of "Bold" ideas, there is no arguing the enormous benefits a Queen Mary Casino would bring to this city. Like Dave, I cannot think of one reason for opposing it. The money generated for the city would be almost inconceivable. Even the knuckleheads at City Hall have to agree on that. And clearly, not only the city benefits from this. Surrounding businesses would flourish, new businesses would be drawn in generating millions of tax dollars, hundreds if not thousands of new jobs would be created not to mention the skyrocking occupancy rates at our hotels. There would be plenty of money to go around including enough to restore the ship to its original glamour. I have been a long time supporter of turning the QM into a beautiful casino on the water. Dave hit the nail on the head with his James Bond/Art Deco/This needs to happen remarks. I could go on and on about this because anybody with half a brain should see the benefits of the realization of this project. The Zoning law people and Coastal Commission have been in bed with our local politicians for years. If they can approve and eyesore like the "Pike", they should certainly have no problem visualizing the unlimited potential this would bring our city. Like I said before, it's a no brainer...

Carmen O. Perez

Great article! This ides has been around for many years...This beautiful icon, the Queen Mary needs a shot in the arm if it is to be the ship it was once..the city needs the revenue. it is a win-win situation (no pun intended).I hope indeed it would call for a study..and not be swept under like many of the good ideas brought forth by our community..Yes, some would say "gambling is not good for the city" I say, it is a choice where we spend the money...no one needs to got here if it is uncomfortable for them!! And let us look at a big Casino, not just a card club..

PH Long Beach

I am getting real sick of these Indian Casinos. Can't the Indians come up with a better option for themselves besides slots and gambling? No way another Indian Casino on the Queen Mary. Were is all the money we were suppose to get from all these Indian Casinos in the first place? I like a casino in the Queen but not Indian.

PDQ

I'd be interested to know if a tribal gaming arrangement was reached, how much of the revenue would go to the city and how much of it would go to the tribe. If the majority of the $$ generated are leaving the city it makes no sense to go with a tribal arrangement just to get slot machines. The city needs to benefit from this or it makes no sense to do it at all.

CHARLIE

OH YES YES YES, NOOOOOOO doubt about it; Here's a chance for the City Council of Long Beach to make up for lost opportunities that they let pass like ships in the night! Heck, you don't even need a study on this bold idea, not that there are not other good ideas out there, but, this one will solve the income & deficit problem in one big bold City Council motion -

Dave in Alamitos Beach

Oh I've had this idea many times, as have just about everyone who has thought about the Queen Mary. I'm perfectly happy to come in dead last on the list of people who think about this (as long as it gets done! ;-). BUT I wasn't really thinking of an Indian Casino per se, I was thinking more of a casino exemption for "large ships." I know that large ships are allowed to have casinos, but they can't open them until they're, what, three miles away from the coast? We'd probably need some sort of law that allows a full service casino on "any former ocean going vessel that is not within 1000 feet of residential housing and/or floating in traditional open waters" or some such thing. There's got to be a way, right? Someone call Alan Lowenthal and/or any other member of his family at the state level.

Douglas Frankenfeld

Turning the QM into a card casino is a good but unrealistic notion. In November 1992, Long Beach voters had the opportunity to turn QM into a card casino; voters rejected it overwhelmingly. Under the Native Gaming Compacts with the State of CA, local card clubs cannot occur until 2015--six years away. In that time may I once again obsess that the Queen Mary has been an abject failure for 42 years? With the world economy slowly recovering, it is time to conduct the most economic value of the Queen Mary:scrap her iron, steel, zinc, copper, and mahogany for commodities. Sure, I agree the only hope for the QM is to turn it into a card casino. But get real everyone, it ain't going to happen. So accept the fact that the Queen Mary will continue to sit there and rot and have Class B hotel accomodations and mediocre restaurants and tawdry exhibits like "Ghosts & Legends" and Scorpion submarine. Even a bungee jump couldn't save the QM that is still hemorrhaging money from city revenues. The initials STC should be changed to "Save the Queen" to "Scrap the Queen." We already have the Grand Prix, Aquarium of the Pacific, the Villa Riviera, Naples, and Joe Jost's to serve as icons of Long Beach. Can we please get rid of this rusting hulk that has been irrevocably destroyed and whose legacy served in the Atlantic--not the Pacific?

Dave in Alamitos Beach

Douglas, why can't this happen? I really don't think that the voters in LB in 2009 are the same as in 1992. AND I really don't think the world is the same place either. And so it can't happen until 2015? It would probably take that long to retrofit the ship and put in the flying gondola ride...or did Brian mean floating gondolas? How about both?!

James

Lets do it! It could single handedly relieve the pressure that Long Beach continues to press upon small businesses through rising taxes to compensate for city funding and budget problems. Besides i wouldn't have to travel as far for a good game.

Dennis

Thanks Darwin, I guess, back at you without the joint.

marvin

When I was Director of the Queen Mary Department I was authorized by the City Manager John Mansell to evaluate the possibilities of gaming operations aboard the RMS Queen Mary. Research was performed at the state and local levels and no insurmountable problems were found. I met with the principal casino operators in Las Vegas and in Atlantic City. The Las Vegas people expressed concern that the Long Beach and Las Vegas might be competing for the same markets. However, the Atlantic City people were enthusiastic and were interested in an operator contract with the city. The financial analysis resulted in a pro forma that would be of great financial value to the City. The operations would start in the first class dining room on R deck and if warranted, at a later time, expanded to the first class lounge on the Promenade deck. The resutls were presented by the City Manager to the Council and received well until a group representing religious leaders in the community expressed their concern. The proposed casino project was not mentioned again.

Kenny

It's funny that Lou has to agree with an idea to certify it as being bold. That's good to know because now it's clear that it wasn't the other ideas not being bold, just Lou not agreeing. Thanks Lou!

Matt

They should just legalize gaming/gambling in CA just like Nevada. But... since that wont happen, sure make the QM a gaming resort. They do need to market it better though. Does the law apply any differently because it is a ship?

Michael

Nothing could be better than to bring about an industry that will create loads of low paying jobs.

Swimmaven

If the Queen became a casino you wouldn't see people like those depicted in the illustration that accompanies this article.

The Queen Mary is an art deco treasure. Long Beach has pretty much torn down all the other art deco beauties.

But it was really unloved (and actually stilll is) by the Prevatil regime. The LA area has more art venues than NYC! Do we need another one ? Yes, we do.

The Queen should be affiliated with the Smithsonian, even though it is British and turned into a museum. A gambling house would be hideous.

Dave in Alamitos Beach

marvin, when was this that the QM Casino was considered? What year?

John

Before we get carried away, someone should sum up the cost of converting a ship which was
saved from the scrap yard 40 years ago into an
up-to-date casino attractive to high rollers. At
least one that positively won't sink.

John Sangmeister

Couldn't be a more flawed idea.

The industry calls such low-end casinos "Grinders Joints" which cater to those who can least afford gaming. Low-end is all we can expect. Las Vegas can barely attract investment capital, see MGMs City Center.Add to this coastal commission and federal tribal requirements and this idea is DOA.

Long Beach can and should expect better. Let's set higher goals for our City and elected officials.

Susan

Hey Long Beach, Please don't screw this up!! As a community, we have missed so many money making opportunities. We need the boost to our economy. I also think the Native Americans have enough gaming casinos. I would rather see the money stay here in Long Beach. Make it happen - yesterday! I say YES, YES, YES!!!!

Long Beach Native

Queen Mary Casino!!! YES. YES. YES. Benefits to the City of Long Beach, Residents and business owners would be astounding!

I vote to have a full service casino/resort, roller coaster and other fun attractions all in one area.

Mike Donelon

In 1992 the voters rejected a card club. Its 2009 and the economy is in the wall. I agree with my best bud Carmen O. Perez, lets do it, but do it big. Lets all get together and do a council run and suggest it from the community. We need a leader. I nominate any of the above commentators. I know most of you and all of you are very good at leading efforts. Damn the torpedos and full steam ahead! My email is mikedonelon@aol.com. Lets start an email list. Talk is cheap....lets do this thing!

mike donelon

Hey commentators, spoke to a few friends. I'll host a small meeting at my house. We can easily draft a request and all go to our friends in the community to sign and support the effort to consider gambling on the QM. Take it to the council under public testimony. With all the talent above it will be a very short easy meeting. If interested email me at mikedonelon@aol.com. I will help facilitate the meeting, outreach and dialogue but not lead the effort. Become old, grouchy and right about everything. Maybe Brian U. can lead the charge!

Mr.Milkshake

The voters (as if they still have a say in their lives) - voted this idea down. It's a NO-GO.
To see the future and the only real answer, see: http://www.lofan.com/cr.htm

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